I’ll say upfront: I believe the Bible takes a universally negative view of homosexuality. I believe that this view should be held as binding today, even though I admit that I do not hold every view expressed in the Bible to be eternally binding (particularly since not all are prescriptive, and if they did, they would be disharmonious). Whereas the stance of either testament gives data both ways on slavery, and gives data both ways on egalitarianism, there is no counterbalancing positive example of homosexuality.

It also doesn’t matter to me how rarely the Bible addresses homosexuality, insofar as considering relative strength of a prohibition by frequency of mention. (Although I appreciate the lectionary approach to preaching since it gives topics proper balance, biblically speaking.) If relative frequency of mention correlated to how binding a command is, then bestiality would be at least as permissible (on this criterion, anyway).

Homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia do all have in common that they are sexual behaviors. They all are also non-standard sexual behaviors, I would argue, though homosexuality differs in that it is mainstream and also in that it can be based on validly given mutual consent.

That having been said: as a “conservative” Evangelical, I’ll take the arrows shot without any real argument. Evangelicals (and others, too) tend to emphasize the sins they themselves don’t commit. It’s easier to crusade against sin when the sin in question can be circumscribed to being committed only by outsiders. It’s much harder to crusade against one’s own sins.

Why do pro-life people support war? If it is heinous to kill children in the womb, then war would be utterly unacceptable, given that every modern war has led to the death and detriment of countless children who did no wrong.

Why do those who (like myself) reject acceptance of same-sex sexuality not also reject acceptance of politicians who commit adultery and/or polygamy/divorce/remarriage?

Hypocrisy, ’tis called.

In my heart, I am Amish. I think that’s the only way to be consistent on issues like this. I support neither war, nor abortion, neither homosexuality nor adultery. Nor do I validate the political system that relies upon war. It’s all rubbish to me.

That doesn’t mean I’m not a hypocrite. I have *some* clarity in this, but I’m not perfect, either. I want to be semper reformanda, and I hope that provides some meaningful distinction between one kind of sinner and another.

While you quote 1Cor6:9, do you ever berate people for being fornicators or adulterers (Speaker Gingrich comes to mind)? Do you ever berate people for being thieves or swindlers (prosperity gospel preachers come to mind)? Do you ever berate people for being covetous or revilers?

Joel isn’t talking about approving homosexuality. Joel is talking about reviling homosexuality under the cover of authority, and singling that out as an exceptional sin, as if there could be an hierarchy of sins, from the least to the worst.

Please try to address Joel’s words:

“What I don’t support is the way he presents his opinions as unbiased fact.

As far as I’m concerned, until Pastor Osteen takes responsibility for his own words, he’s no better than any other coward who hides from the people he attacks.”

In fact, I would challenge everyone to examine whether they are operating from a strongly held opinion and picking verses of the Bible to support their opinion, when the Bible has hundreds of verses more to say about marital fidelity and heterosexual relationships than about homosexuality. In fact, 1Cor6:9, 10 addresses fornicators and adulterers in the same verse as effeminates and homosexuals. Heterosexual marriages seem to be in serious trouble in the modern church, with divorce rates HIGHEST in the states that are most religious. Where is the moral outcry about THIS problem?

It seems that most Christians don’t care about putting the heterosexual marriage household in order, while they are excessively worked up about homosexuality. I can’t remember the last time a Christian reviled a politician for adultery with the same energy that Christians revile homosexuality.

THAT, to me, is the essence of Joel’s message.

Regarding I Corinthians 6:9-10, I think it’s helpful to look at the entire two verses, and not leave the middle out. For example, the full text includes “drunkards” in the list of people who will not inherit God’s Kingdom. And I Corinthians 5:11 cautions not even to eat with drunkards.

Do you think alcoholics will enter God’s Kingdom?

Do you think drinking is as serious a sin as homosexual behavior? Do you think religious leaders should speak out against drinking the same say they do against homosexuality?

What about I Corinthians 6:7, which warns not to sue one another?

And how do you incorporate Matthew 7:1, which cautions not to judge other people?

Does that clear things up for you?

The reason those old books are not considered is becuse they are not meant for us- the Old Testament is a record of History and the laws given in it were given to the Israelites, NOT the Christians who wern’t even around till hundreds of years later.

In the Old Testament, (The same part of the Bible with the books you quoted) God tells Noah to “build an ark”. Should all the Christians isolate the part that says “Build an ark” and go out and start building arks?

Of course not. Because that was Old Testament. When Jesus came he set the way Christians (Followers of Chirst) should live, and that is why we live according to the New Testament.

And as you saw from the quote above, the Bible is clear: Homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God.

By homosexual it means practicing homosexuality. If you are born with an attraction to the same sex, that just means your genes are inclining you towards sin, no different to a straight male who wants to have sex before marriage- just cos he is “born” that way doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong to engage in the behavior. Remember lust is also forbidden and considered adultery of the the heart according to Jesus.

I think Joel has done a very good job of explaining how Pastor Osteen has picked and choosen from scripture what he wants to emphasize and what he wants to ignore.

And as a 59 year old woman, I have come to understand that there are some real problems with the “homosexuality is sin” argument used by so many evangelical Christians. People are BORN homosexual. It is NOT lifestyle. It is NOT a choice. This is the scientific opinion of the AMA, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and 13 other reputable science-based organizations. So we enter the dilemma that if homosexuals are BORN homosexual, then they are created by God to BE homosexuals. Are we therefore going to face the problem of condemning them for BEING homosexual – a God-given trait – or condemning them for ACTING ON that homosexual trait – to fall in love with someone else of the same gender? Since Joel did not enter into that dilemma, I propose we leave it hanging.

This leaves me to seriously question all the lies (another Biblical sin) told about homosexuality by those who are so anxious to protect the “sanctity of marriage.” What lies? That homosexuality = pedophilia for one. Over 90% of all pedophiles are heterosexual males, according to numerous scientific studies of FBI statistics. Or how about homosexuality = beastiality? Once again, far more people who practice beastiality are heterosexual than homosexual, and even IF the incident was 50/50, we would be left with the result that homosexuality does NOT = beastiality. So if homosexuality is a sin, so is lying. And if evangelical Christians are honestly anxious to protect the “sanctity of marriage,” why is the divorce rate in the United States highest in the most religiously active states?

I’m sorry, but my conclusion is that most evangelical Christians are far more titillated by the few 10′s of verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality and embarrassed by the 100′s of verses (1,000′s?) that dictate how heterosexuals are to behave. And that leads right back into Joel’s blog and comments, that evangelical Christians like Pastor Osteen are picking which portions of the Bible to read and which to ignore.

Though people will obviously differ about the details, I think it’s clear that the Bible takes a negative view of homosexuality, and I’m not claiming otherwise.

My point is that Pastor Osteen has chosen to accept the Bible’s teachings on homosexuality while rejecting other teachings.

I believe that it’s his right to do so, but I don’t believe that he’s being honest when he says that he is a neutral interpreter of the Bible.

For example, you cite Lev. 20:13. Do you think that male homosexuality should be punished by death today? If not, why not? Does Pastor Osteen think so? Again, if not, why not?

Or to look at it differently, if you accept the NT approach according to which the laws of the OT have been replaced, do you agree with I Cor. 6:9? Pastor Osteen does not. He just told Oprah that homosexuals will be admitted to Heaven. Similarly, do you think we should bring back prohibition, because I Cor. 6:10 refers to drinking? Does Pastor Osteen?

To repeat, my point is that all modern religious leaders pick and choose. The real difference, in my opinion, is between leaders who admit it and leaders who hide it.

If you read about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, one of the reasons it was destroyed was because of homosexuality.

Colleen,
Being 22 years old I can tell you honestly, the only sermons I love listening to is about current events with Bible referencing. I think, a good way to get people to come listen to the word of God is to talk about what everyone wants to hear, or things that would capture the most peoples interest. Pastor Osteen made it very clear that homosexuality is no worse than any other sin. I believe he speaks about so much because it is a current event. Homosexuality all around the world is growing and what better subject to speak about than a major issue? Now I’m not saying that it’s a worse sin that stealing or murdering. What i’m trying to say is that for all listeners around the world, especially for youth, it’s easier for us to understand the Bible and what God expects of us by using current events then referencing to it. Also, i’m pretty sure Pastor Osteen doesn’t speak about homosexuality at every sermon. If he speaks about it during interviews, that’s because that is a topic that most likely will always come up. It’s not like he can say, “Oh I don’t want to talk about it because we need to focus on other issues.” If he did, then people would be saying that he’s indecisive when he really is not. Hopefully my point of view helps.

My argument isn’t that homosexuality is or is not sin. My argument is that people such as Pastor Osteen focus on homosexuality and make it a signature issue, but they gloss over or ignore all the multitude of other sins that all humans are prone to, according to the Bible. Is homosexuality a sin set apart as something especially loathsome, or are ALL sins equally loathsome to God? I know of no verse in either the Old or New Testament that places homosexuality primary over all other sins. I’ve too often felt that people who preach against homosexuality make it to be a most loathsome sin, equating it with pedophilia (which is MOST predominantly a heterosexual male crime), beastiality, and polygamy, in other words trying to condemn by false implication. I seldom hear that God is going to destroy America over infidelity, lying or bearing false witness, using God’s name in vain, or any other sin, but I am VERY familiar with hearing how God is going to destroy America over homosexuality (and abortion).

My issue is that those who preach against homosexuality more often than not have picked homosexuality (and abortion) as an unusually loathsome sin, and that magnification of homosexuality over other sins, according to MY understanding of the Bible, is wrong, pure and simple.

So, once again to lay to rest quick and uninformed rebuttals, I have NOT said that homosexuality is or is not sin. I have said that there are those who imply that homosexuality is a sin beyond all other sins, making homosexuality a peculiarly reviled sin.

Where do you (or Pastor Osteen) read that the Bible says that homosexuality is a “sin”?